Dr. Marina Su - Member Spotlight

Dr. Viola Kanevsky interviews Dr. Marina Su as she hits a new milestone in her career.

By: Dr. Viola Kanevsky

Dr. Su, so much has changed from the last time I had the pleasure of introducing you to our membership as incoming president of the NYSOA. Your family has grown and your career has evolved. I fondly remember the advice you gave our readers: "I encourage any OD to step out of their comfort zone and say yes to a managing position.” This past year has certainly been a turbulent one in your career. You went from being Ocular Disease Residency Supervisor at Fromer Eye Centers and an Adjunct Associate Clinical Professor here at SUNY Optometry to your just recently announced new role as vice president for clinical affairs and Executive Director of the university eye center. I believe this is a position that was created initially for Dr. Richard Soden almost 40 years ago. It carries tremendous responsibility and I can think of no better person suited to taking it on with natural grace, calm, and fierce determination. Can you tell us a little about your decision to take this on and what plans and hopes you have for the college?

Thank you Dr. Kanevsky for being such a supportive colleague and friend; it was very much appreciated during a time when it felt like the mental, physical and emotional burden was insurmountable.

While I did not have a lot of time for self- reflection while everything was happening to truly know where I would go next, I did know that I wanted to find a place where I was surrounded by those passionate in what they do in carrying forward unified goals again. I saw that opportunity with SUNY. It was apparent in my conversations with multiple leaders within the SUNY community that there is a lot of momentum behind wanting to continue and push the envelope in striving for educational and research excellence while providing top-quality care to the patients in our communities. I felt that I would not only be able to bring my experience to add to the team, but also learn a great deal from everyone at SUNY. That’s what led me to take the leap into academia. The role provides a nice blend between bringing real-world concepts and applications to academia, while also having an impact in direct patient care in the NYC area.

I've only been in this role for a few weeks now, so I’m still getting to learn the SUNY system, but I can share my overall hopes and plans at a high level.

(1) I would like for the doctors we educate to feel like they had the strongest and broadest foundation in everything optometry when they graduate.

(2) I would like for the staff that make the entire University Eye Center run smoothly every day to be proud of where they work and how they impact the greater community.

(3) I would like for everyone outside of SUNY to lean on our amazing educators, faculty and researchers in collaborating on healthcare initiatives pertaining to vision, eye, and medical health. These 3 areas are already areas where SUNY excels, but I hope to continue that trajectory and continue to stay relevant and be innovative and ahead of the curve.

 

Dr. Su, you have served on numerous boards and committees of your local, state, and National associations, including a year as president of the NYSOA, but as you are naturally reserved, I want those members who haven't heard your story to be introduced to you so that they can get a small glimpse of the person I have come to love and respect. Can you share a little bit about your personal and professional history with our readers?

You are too sweet! I always feel like everyone else has more interesting stories. My journey into optometry was a bit bumpy and non-traditional, but I am so grateful that I found it; albeit a bit later.

I’m originally from Northern California but spent a number of years in Southern California. I’ve always grown up with international influence even though I was raised in the U.S. My family made it important for me to understand that THE world is bigger than my world. I had plans of going to law school and working in the juvenile and family law sector. My path changed when I did an internship at an intellectual property law firm abroad in Asia. I had multiple candid conversations with the partner in the law firm about his journey. He really started to put the question mark in my brain of whether or not I would truly extract from law the fulfillment that I was seeking. I was surprised to hear that despite making partner, he would not have done it again if given a second chance; it was then that I understood what finding a vocation meant.

The catalyst for my career change was a course in juvenile delinquency during my third year of college. Part of the course was to go out to the Camps (juvenile detention centers in California) and create a curriculum for the kids. The one-on-one conversations I had with those kids impacted me more than I made any impact on them; I saw that these kids did not have advocates. One of the kids kept saying he kept losing his place reading; another said, he wasn’t allowed to wear glasses because it was considered a weapon and he lost his privileges. One thing led to the other where I found out that eye exams were not required prior to entering school in California. Coupled with the revelation that vision and learning started so early and the apparent inequity that existed amongst communities, I then discovered there was a WHOLE profession dedicated to addressing these issues…OPTOMETRY!! Here I was able to blend my love for public policy, serving the underserved, teaching, learning, and science into one profession. I was sold.

I then had to figure out how to get myself there since I had none of the pre-requisites needed to get into optometry school and I was already entering my senior year of college. I had almost taken a detour to obtain a Masters of Vision Sciences at Cambridge University in England thinking that I would never get into optometry school with a legal studies and psychology major. I clearly did not have access to good information or mentors at that time (this is one of the reasons why I take any opportunity to share optometry to anyone who is interested regardless where I am or how old they are). I ended up just taking the plunge and applying to optometry school right away while working 6 days a week at 2 optometry offices, moonlighting by editing translated patents at another intellectual property law firm, and taking evening classes and labs at the local college every day to get as many of my pre-requisites as I could. It was one of the most intense, sleepless years of my life but worth it. I ended up choosing to go to Southern California College of Optometry (at Ketchum University), completing a residency in Ocular Disease at Fromer Eye Centers, affiliated with SUNY College of Optometry, and here I am in New York.

 

I know that teaching and mentoring is a passion for you. Where do you draw your inspiration - was there a professor or clinician who set you on your path?

I actually didn’t think I would end up teaching or mentoring as I never thought I had anything to teach or mentor…I was still trying to figure myself out. However, by bringing in people during my learning, I inadvertently found myself teaching over the years.

There were several pivotal individuals throughout different phases of my life who have said something, done something for me or advocated for me when I was most lost. I’ve never forgotten any of those moments and I share those pieces of advice and their stories to people when the opportunity presents itself. Most people don’t realize that when help is given at a time of uncertainty, fear or confusion, that’s when the mentorship and teaching is the most profound. I’m just paying it forward.

I’ve also always chosen to align myself with good people with integrity and virtues; that has never misguided me. I’m always learning from the company I keep.

 

Can you talk about how you are able to combine mentoring, teaching with clinical responsibilities? Do you see yourself gravitating more to teaching as your career evolves?

I spend every minute of my day teaching and I don’t see it stopping anytime soon. If it’s not teaching my residents, it’s teaching the staff. If it’s not teaching the staff, it’s teaching my patients.

I never thought that I would have the honor of training residents in our profession. These doctors are at the top of their game and they have been such a highlight of my career. It is part of the reason that even as I get promoted in my job, I’ve agreed to keep the added responsibilities in running the residency program. We have such a unique program and it is absolutely thrilling to see how they enter in Day 1 and how they leave on their last day. They’ve chosen to dedicate a year to learning and it is my job to give them everything they need to empower them clinically, professionally and as a person.I encourage everyone to teach future generations if given the opportunity. Even if it’s just spending a couple of hours with them. I have heard over the years from doctors that they are too busy to teach and that they need to focus on clinical responsibilities; I find it the opposite.

Teaching has refined my clinical responsibilities. It is so rewarding to know that I am able to pass my skills to future doctors and they in turn will impact thousands of their own patients one day. All of a sudden, I’m not only changing one patients’ life; it has now branched out to thousands. It is the perfect blend and balance that keeps you young and prevents burnout.

 

 

I know you were employed by a large ophthalmology practice focused on medical care and in that role had to manage other ODs. Having done something similar about 20 years ago, I know how difficult it can be in that it often puts you at odds with your employed colleagues. And of course, now you will manage entire departments of ODs including colleagues who are professors. Can you tell us a little bit about how you manage this aspect of your job and how your perspective about work has changed when you took the position of a managing OD?

After getting over the initial panic, Iasked myself the things that I would want to have done to make my job easier. I then put in the hours to create and improve things, made changes that impacted our day-to-day, communicated with other departments, and then from there, the other optometrists shared ideas with me. I listened and we just worked together. I allowed them to get involved and things just snowballed from there. Whenever I am tasked with more difficult challenges to execute and implement with my team, I am there with the rest of the doctors going through it with them too. I have been very lucky to work with intelligent, ethical, and kind colleagues; I honestly tell my team of ODs all the time how lucky I am to work with them. They make my “managing” part so easy and I am more than happy to put in the hours and try to make things better for them every day. 

What has been extremely helpful is that my colleagues have always been very understanding and patient; they know what hurdles I have to go through. My constant challenge is creating a supportive environment in navigating all of us through life changes, including our journeys into parenthood, marriage, personal illnesses, personal setbacks, all the while, being a part of a workplace that keeps you challenged and continuing to grow our careers as doctors.

Your job will be exponentially more difficult if you do not take the time to understand your team and you don’t lead byexample. Your job does not get easier the higher up you go. I have definitely appreciated what my past supervisors had done for me knowing how much of the stress they shouldered for me just so I could do my job. Because of how much I’ve seen and learned, it is my duty to continue pushing forward for all the work that needs to be done in the bigger scheme. Now that my job duties have expanded to company-wide operations and dealing with more than 150+ staff, I am ever more grateful that I have such a strong group of doctors I get to work with every day. I encourage any OD to say yes to a managing position. Even though it can test your patience and be uncomfortable at times; if it’s not you, someone else will, and they may not be another optometrist who understands what you do. If you want to contribute to building abetter workplace, then see it as a blessing when given an opportunity to have a say in how things are run. There will never be a perfect workplace, but if you are able to make a difference in it, it will make your work-life so much more enjoyable.

 

Let’s talk a little about organized Optometry and what it means to you personally? What drives you in the face of frequent opposition, red tape, and resistance to change? Tell us about your journey to the president’s seat and the challenges you’ve faced thus far.

To me, it’s simple. If we can put aside our smaller differences and each put in a little bit of effort to reach a common goal, we can be so very powerful. Sometimes I hear people say, “Well there’s no point in trying, nothing is ever going to change.” I think hearing that drives me the most. My response is always,“Well, that’s for sure. So now, what are you going to do about it?” I never had ambition for becoming president of any group, society, let alone a state association. It’s funny because when I started in NY, all I had wanted to do was to make future residents who moved to NY feel more welcome in the state and get connected to their professional association so that they could be in good company and receive good advice and guidance. This all stemmed from my own experience when I moved to NY in 2012. I hadn’t planned on staying in NY long term but I had still wanted to do what I could.

Because of the two-term positions with OSCONY at that time, I actually ended up serving the state association as a Trustee first and then later going back to OSCONY serving in various positions as the need was there. Once we were able to set up the framework, new programs and engage more members, I focused more on the NYSOA Young Advocates program and then started to serve on the Executive Board, where I most recently contributed to the Membership Committee, Marketing Committee and helped develop the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Task Force in 2021.

I also think I’ve been sheltered from the battles and struggles NY optometrists have seen for many years. Coming from another state, I hadn’t experienced the history myself and had only heard of the stories from other optometrists. However, I see these challenges as opportunities to start discussion and ask the hard questions. I’ve actually found that my inherent lack of knowledge of an area ended up bringing the issues to light, resulting in openness and receptiveness to new ideas in the association. It’s always easier for someone to come in and say, this is broken, let’s fix it now and done! But there’s a fine balance between listening to the history, not repeating the same mistakes, yet being open enough to question whether or not the status quo is really acceptable. My general approach is if it’s not going to be sustainable or effective, then don’t do it at all. The long game takes more time but it is more worthwhile.

 

I’ve had the privilege of working on committees with you and am always impressed with your gentle demeanor and your ability to get things done. I often looked to your leadership style as a model for my own presidential year and continue to do so in managing my practice. Leadership skills are so crucial for any doctor - even if only to get their patients to participate effectively in their own care. Can you share some of your strategies for motivating staff, patients, students, and colleagues?

You are absolutely right. It’s all about communication. You can be the doctor with the best clinical skills and your patient may think you’re the lousiest doctor because you have not effectively communicated with them in their own care. I think if you can perfect that skill in an exam chair, then you can be a leader in the general sense. In the exam chair, you only have seconds to minutes to figure out how you are going to deliver the message so you can have them understand their own eye conditions and work with you. I have to tailor my delivery of messaging for the same eye condition depending on the patient. We all need to be leaders in our exam rooms; you end up creating value for your actions and patients come back to you. If you apply this to everything that you do, you’d be surprised at what comes out from it. I don’t really look to reach the MOST people; I just look to make an impact on that ONE person. It takes more time to effect change this way but if that person walks away understanding you, then they carry your message and isn’t that the best scenario? You’ve now empowered someone else and that is how you get others excited and motivated. The one thing I’ve learned about leading is that you can’t do it yourself; and if you think you can, you will to a certain point and then, your growth will stunt as you can only do so much alone.

I think people also often think that leadership is about cultivating your own skills and getting others to do what you say; but 80% of it is actually listening and understanding those you are trying to serve; whether it is your patient or your colleague. I feel that if you don’t understand your audience, then you can’t lead or effectively communicate. I also found that there is least resistance when you can gather all your facts, listen, and figure out a solution that aligns with the goals while still maintaining the relevance to those you are trying to work for. The only difference when you are in a leadership position is that you are given a platform to take the information people are giving you, pair it up with resources and information that you have access to and make something of it. And then the most important part? Follow through and be honest.

I think we have a very energized group of volunteers with the NYSOA so I have no doubt that this momentum will carry on into the future. I think each cycle of the NYSOA volunteers comes with their unique skillsets and so I hope that over the years, we carry forward what others in the past have done for us and create new avenues for those who will lead us in the future to push forward. Just as prior leaders allowed me to contribute to programs for NYSOA and our profession, I will seek to do the same for the slate of board members. I think we energize each other and that is a wonderful group to be a part of; I really enjoy seeing all the great work my colleagues are doing. Our leaders on our board are some of the busiest people in this world and yet, they still find the time to give back to the profession in their “free time”…that’s inspiring.

 

Are there any thoughts you’d like to leave for our members?

Take care of yourself and those around you. It’s okay if you need to take a moment for yourself. You know, I’ve shared all the wonderful things that your questions have led me to answer, but I’ve also dealt with some personal losses over the past few years of my life all the while my career was growing forward. I’ve channeled the hurt, pain, and sadness into making intentional choices and actions that have kept me smiling and grateful. I’ve been afforded a profession to provide for my family, fulfill my intellectual curiosity and give me a network and community of friendships that continuously motivate me every day. It can all disappear in a minute, so treasure and be present in each moment, even if its average or “just a stepping stone” to somewhere else.

Every moment deserves your full attention.